R56S EGT Concern

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nine5raptor
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R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Been watching my EGTs some on my 2010 with my Alta AP stage 1 map. Timing looks great (smoothly advances through the gear with no drops). AFR looks good (nice and rich). Boost can get as high as 19.1 psi when conditions are right (maybe higher as it warms up).

What concerns me is EGT. I had previously seen high 1500Fs as measured at the first O2 sensor which I thought was a touch high.

Today I saw 1675F on a long pull through 5th getting on the highway. That seems way too high to me but what should EGTs get to? Am I in a danger zone? Next step is back to stock tune and see how high I can get the EGTs. I'm running BP 93 octane and using the stage 1 tune for 91 octane.

Thanks

Edit: I have found a few reports of EGTs around 955C (1750F) on minitorque and mini2. These seem to match 1000C in the exhaust manifold. So maybe I am right in line. Those temps still seem high based on past cars I've had.

Opinions?
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
Sspreso
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by Sspreso »

I saw 1560 at 13psi while autocrossing Sunday and this is from a standalone EGT pre-turbo. One thing to remember is that direct injection engines run hotter. 221 is the normal coolant range, 220-260 for oil... also these temps are peak during boost. My EGTs are right back down to 900-1100 at idle after a autoX run.

That said... I wonder how a clogged and older catalytic converter would affect EGTs? I'm running an open system with bigger turbo so apples - oranges.

I'm going to go see if I have any old data logs with catalytic converter temps in them.
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by MiniManiac »

Now I know how my friends feel when I start talking in Army Infantry lingo :)
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by Minidave »

Ha!

EGTs are exhaust gas temp readings - the hotter is is....well you can imagine.
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by Zack »

MiniManiac wrote:Now I know how my friends feel when I start talking in Army Infantry lingo :)
Hahaha. Since my dad was in the Army I can occasionally understand Army Infantry lingo. Mini lingo is still a new one. Would be a fun game to invent. Call it "Auto Lingo" a game for the truest Gear Head. Every acronym and abreviation in the book for every make of car on the road.
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nine5raptor
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Back to stock today. Was able to get my Echo Golf Tangos up to high 1400s but not over 1500. Was going to wail on it on the way home tonight to see if I can get them higher.

Anyone have a spare catless DP laying around I could use for some trials? :lol:
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
nine5raptor
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

So, took some logs on the way home. Managed to get the EGTs up to about 1550 with the Stage 0 tune (not exactly stock, but righer AFRs and stock boost levels). Max boost was 12.8. Also looked back at some logs taken back in Feb with similar ambient temps (intake temps 60-80 degrees F). Highest EGT I saw was 1582F. Those were with the same tune I was running the other day. Same gas station, same engine mods. Still not sure why I saw 1675F on Sunday. In my logs in Feb and today, I do not see any knock and AFR/Timing all look good.

Will retune tomorrow and gather more data. Wonder if it is a fuel issue, random fluke, carbon buildup, plugs, aliens, or something else entirely??? :chili:

Notes: Stage 0 targets a load per cylinder of around 165. Stage 1 91 octane targets a load per cylinder of 185.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by SWT CHI »

a passing boson.
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by Sspreso »

Looked at my old AP Stage 1 logs and it showed 1400 range for EGTs at WOT. I think if you are running a high power tune against 91-93 octane then 1400-1550 is normal. I'll be curious to see if this changes when it's 100 out.
-John Herrman
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-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.
nine5raptor
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Thanks for the info! I am running the Stage 1 91 octane tune and using 93 octane fuel. Now I'm starting to chase a new trail. What I am trying to sort out is what the AP reads versus my OBDII reader. The AP gives a lower value but I think it may be a calculated value from the DME - not a true EGT at all. Using my OBDII reader, I am checking the temp of the primary O2 sensor which is where I have seen the higher numbers. I may have to go ahead and buy a real EGT gage and probe so that I can get readings pre-turbo (as now I am checking post-turbo with a slow reading probe - the O2 sensor).

Ultimately though, I don't know what values are good but I agree with you John, 1500ish would be more comforting.

Edit: From Alta's website,

"• EGT GAUGE- EGT is Exhaust Gas Temperature. This is a probe that installs into the exhaust system and measures the temperature of

the exhaust. This is a good indication on how hard your engine is working. A properly tuned engine rarely sees above 1500F. When

temps get to 1650F on up, things are getting into the danger zone. This can indicate your engine is running a lean AFR mixture, or

something has gone wrong. When EGTs reach this temp, things can start to melt, like catalytic converters."
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Some additional info. I flashed back to the stock tune for a trip to the dealer. I have been doing several runs over the last two weeks and the highest I have seen is 1580F. I flashed back to my tune and did several runs today. the highest I saw was 1593F which I consider to be nearly the same as the stock tune. Today, I did see a couple of isolated drops in timing though which would indicate knock. I think my next step is to replace the plugs either with JCW or one step colder. these plugs have right at 50k on them.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
nine5raptor
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Did some more running around this morning (gotta love Highway entrance ramps!).

Ambient temps were 78F.

Boost maxed out at 17.7 psi. Timing advanced smoothly up to around 8 degrees advance. EGT topped out at 1620F (where I am measuring it). Did not see any evidence of timing drops. I did see the timing drop as soon as I lifted my foot even a micro-inch in preparation for a shift, which may be what I saw last time.

My Long Term Fuel Trim was still adjusting some as well, so I may need to give it a bit more time, but so far, things are looking OK.

Edit. 88F on the way home. Boost hit 18.4 psi. Timing looked smooth again. Egts hit in the 1590s again but not over 1600F T the front O2 sensor.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
nine5raptor
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

Just documenting things here....

Logged 8 runs on the way home today. Various gears and conditions.

Ambient 89F and humid.

Timing was good all over, maybe saw one isolated drop but boost didn't look right so I probably did something funny.

AFRs consistently good dropping below 13.5 and down to 12.2 to 12.0.

Boost hit as high as 18.8psi in the less dense warm air.

I did record intake temps plenty high. At one point, I was recording 133.25F! Yowza! Maybe a little heat soak for the inter cooler? Going to have to do something about that eventually. Spray heads, water injection, or a larger intercooler...just no money for them now.

One thing of note is the AP recorded EGTs in the upper 1400s and only occasionally topped 1500. This ecu calculated value is likely low but it is what the ecu uses to determine when to use a 'safer' map or so I've read.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
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Re: R56S EGT Concern

Post by nine5raptor »

an update:

I changed the plugs at the last garage day. Thanks Dave! for letting me use your tools for the job. Installed NGK ILZKBR7A-8G plugs, which is what came out of it. I had 50,400ish miles on the original plugs. Taking them out, cylinders (from the timing chain side) 1 and 4 were nearly bridged with a carbon strand. Cylinders 2 and 3 were completely bridged between the side and center electrodes.

After replacing the plugs, my idle smoothed out and power delivery feels stronger. I no longer notice the occaisional misfire/timing drop and my EGTs are reduced. I have not seen over 1592F now at the first O2 sensor and that is in hot July weather!

So, if something seems off in the combustion cycle, start with the basics...fuel, air, and spark!

Edit: did some more trials on the way home. Car read 97F and I hit 20.6 psi with no timing pulled!
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps
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