Project OVRKLL

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Minidave
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:16 am

I have doubled up 2 X 10 ramps to get enough height to drive over my scissors lift, of course then you have to move them to work on the car once it's up in the air, still - beats working on jackstands any day!

Maybe you can reorganize the shop and move the toolbox so you have more room in the front, or maybe back the car in instead? I know if the weather's at all co-operative, I like having the garage door open for the extra light and fresh air.

Or...... since it's designed to be moveable, drop another set of set ins a foot back from those? It's fairly easy to move, isn't it?
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"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:21 am

Well the seats are installed. Talk about a PITA. Given the space and multi-use brackets there was only one way to install them...took awhile to figure it out. I'm still currently getting an airbag/restraint warning light even though I did the resistor install as documented by others. I didn't reinstall the seat occupancy sensor because I didn't want to damage my lounge leather seats. That might be the issue. Since this isn't my primary car, I'm not sweating it too much. When it gets warmer and I have more time, I'll look into it further.

Good news was that I went from 53lbs per seat to 21lbs per seat. That includes brackets and rails even. Also taking a corner at speed is much easier as your legs and body aren't nearly as affected by the centripetal force of the turn.

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-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:32 am

Well it has been slow going. Part of it has been just taking our time (younger brother helping), learning as we go. Also having to put out work fires, make parts/tool runs, address contractor issues at the house...you know life keep interrupting the wrenching! :lol:

Didn't hit the first big snag until yesterday when I discovered that the new hybrid turbo uses a N18 housing. This is an issue because they added a few new knows and protrusions. One specifically for a redesigned water cooling return line. So my option was to ship the turbo back to have a different housing installed...or to retro fit the new line setup as everything after the line is the same. I went with option 2 and ordered the new line setup from Baron, but it won't be in until Thursday. I'm a firm believer that if you can retro fit newer designed components into your car, it can be a good thing.

Today was to be the clutch/LSD day, but just got news of a very sick family member, so that comes first. Given the forecast and hose delay it wasn't like the car was going anywhere soon.

Here's a pic of Taz's current state:
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-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:29 am

What are you going to do with the OEM seats?

I agree with your thinking on the hose, I would have done the same.

Good luck with the clutch job, as much as you've taken out so far, you've got that much or more to do to get the transmission out! :D

Are you going to drop the engine/subframe together, or just remove the transmission? At this point I think it's a tossup which is more work, pulling the entire assy gives you a lot more room to work around the backside in particular since you're not able to walk under it.

Did you degas the A/C? I don't see the condenser in your pic.....

Hope you've taken lots of pics every step of the way, it will really help you when going back together.

Don't forget I'm nearby if you need a hand - just call 913-648-6339 is the home number.
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Mon Mar 03, 2014 3:24 pm

Not sure what I will do with the seats. I did pull off some of the wiring harnesses and kept the seatbelt components. But with someone's original seats they could be retrofitted with minimal effort. They are the redlined lounge leather with heaters. I talk like I could put the car back to stock, but I don't think that will really happen. So I might part with them.

The clutch is going in today. Got delayed by being shorted on flywheel bolts. LSD went in last night so transmission should be back on the car tonight.

We just dropped the entire subframe so I could do the Alta PSRS install and new fsb bushings.

I had AC degassed earlier in preparation for this adventure.

Lots of pictures and an old iPad have helped a bunch. I hoping to have it all back together by Sunday. Once the subframe goes back on Tuesday I'll be losing my weekday helper.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Tue Mar 04, 2014 8:33 am

Well thanks to some superhero efforts from my brother yesterday the clutch, transmission, and subframe are all back in and on the car. Amazing what a properly motivated 20 year old can do with an engine hoist and a couple hydraulic lifts.

So now I have to just get all the intake and IC piping put back, get the cooling hoses swapped out, and install the oil cooler when bolting the AC condenser back on. Also going to try running the Evans waterless coolant. Very popular with some older E series BMW racers. I got the majority of the PLX sensors arrived (EGT on backorder) and will do the mechanical installation. Will take longer to wire everything up. Will have to dig out the ol' soldering iron.

Shipped out the ECU yesterday, should have it back on Friday. So we should be cranking things over this weekend and checking for leaks and what not. Hopefully the 50s they are talking about next week pan out for some break-in driving...I might just make the HPT event on the 15th...
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu Mar 06, 2014 9:06 am

Problem with trying to do so much at once...wrong parts, missing parts, and broken parts. While the motor and transmission is all back together I've had issues with places sending me N18 parts instead of N14. Slowly getting sorted out, but slowing things down as I'd rather wait a day for the part vs put on/take off/put on various parts.

This has given me time to come up with a franken-pipe solution to my cold side intercooler pipe that had a rusty weld. Combining an NM-Engineering noise maker delete with this custom setup should solve my problem in a satisfactory way. I'll post various pictures next week of the OEM, v1, and v2 solutions.

Re-programmed ECU is do back Friday along with the various parts that had to be resent. So I'm hoping this weekend to be doing some break-in milage and electrical system testing. Fingers crossed that I still might make the HPT day on the 15th. Back up plan is to putter to the Donut run.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Mon Mar 10, 2014 9:02 am

We were SO close to having the car put back together and puttering around the neighbor hood. But a slowly growing list of 'not quite rights' have appeared.

First was another gotcha with having the N18 turbo housing. Turns out its 4mm wider so none of my intake hoses fit right. Clearances around the turbo are suddenly much tighter so the Sameco hose is too thick once a clamp is included. The N14 OEM hose will fit once you remove the rubber ring, but this isn't good enough for autoX/HPDE conditions, but did allow us to at least prime the turbo and idle the car for a minute or two.

At that point I found a slight coolant leak at the oil cooler plate location...after diagnosing it turns out the u-pipe on the coolant side of the plate was askew and had come apart under pressure. So we pulled front clip off again to completely redo the plate with RVT and additional hose clamps all around.

Lesson here is to never assume any third party part is assembled correctly even if it ships in a 'completed' state.

I did order a new N18 intake hose to see if I can make that work short term as I look for a final intake hose solution... which could be combining an NM Engineering intake with a custom silicone hose elbow and pipe... If this was a euro spec car I'd just plop a cone filter on the end of the turbo and call it good.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Zack » Mon Mar 10, 2014 12:51 pm

Sspreso wrote:... If this was a euro spec car I'd just plop a cone filter on the end of the turbo and call it good.


Does the MDOT or KDOT need to know that it is using a Euro Spec setup? :wink:
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Mon Mar 10, 2014 4:39 pm

Nah, no state inspections in Kansas, he can do whatever he wants unless he wants some warranty work that could be affected by the filter. Other than that, it's wide open here....so yeah John, just put that cone filter on the end of the turbo and call it good.
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby nine5raptor » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:03 pm

When I put a bigger turbo on my talon, my intake setup didn't fit. I put a piece of T-shirt on the intake and went for a spin! :D
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Zack » Mon Mar 10, 2014 5:08 pm

Minidave wrote:Nah, no state inspections in Kansas, he can do whatever he wants unless he wants some warranty work that could be affected by the filter. Other than that, it's wide open here....so yeah John, just put that cone filter on the end of the turbo and call it good.


I think with all the extensive modifications he is doing he is going to not be too worried about warranty work anymore. I don't think MINI will do warranty work on it anymore now that all these modifications have been done.
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McCoy - 2014 Mini JCW Clubman

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2006 R53 Mini Cooper S "Oliver"
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:27 am

Warranties are made to be broken! It all depends on the problem I'm having. If it seems like the HPFP is failing, I'd take it to Baron since there is a history of those failing and they have their own separate warranty. Also it seems Baron is much more accommodating of modifications recently. Heck the techs wanted to talk to me about why and what I've done.

Not sure when it happened, but manufacture warranties used to be just about failures due to something wrong on their side. Now people expect everything to be covered under warranties. I can see how this helps dealers as it discourages people from doing things themselves and makes trade-ins more reliable and quicker to flip at auctions.

Can't do the cone filter on the end of the turbo due to MAF sensor. Although one guy moved his post turbo and it worked okish. Just had to clean the MAF monthly.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Sat Mar 15, 2014 6:14 am

IT'S ALIVE! Around 10 last night we finally got the wheels and bumper back on for a quick spin around the block... one final insult...
Did you know the the side marker lights and the horns have the exact same harness plug! So flip the lights on in the drive and HONK! :lol:

Took it around the block and got up to operating temperature.

Looks like we have an air bubble in the coolant system as the fan never kicked on in the 5 minute drive.
Also a couple clunks in the front suspension that could be the solid bushings and everything resettling up front
Starter makes a great scream at startup even though we've adjusted it twice.
And oil cooler and front grill are interfering with each other so some trimming or garage engineering is in order to get that locked into place.

Checked under the car this AM and no large puddles so that's a plus.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:07 am

Well done!

Can't wait to see it on the road again and see it making some serious HP.... :shock:
Hi! My name's Dave!

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Sun Mar 16, 2014 7:59 am

Went for a longer drive last night and I was finally able to get rid of the Limp Mode issue. It was related to a 3rd party diverter valve I installed. Either it wasn't assembled correctly or it doesn't like the N18 turbo housing. Technically the GFB DV+ is only for the N14 right now. Kicker is I had to go buy a ScanGaugeII to get the soft code to clear. None of the smartphone based apps clear codes. Read them like a dream, but can't clear them.

With the nasty weather today I'm going to install what iMFD sensors I have (EGT still AWOL) so I can data collect during next weeks shake down drives to work.

At this point I will probably drive the car as it is now at the first few AutoX events. I have brakes and suspension stuff still to do, but until the new suspension shows up and the 15" wheels are available, it's not a rush job. Besides get the drivetrain sorted before I jack with the brakes :lol: So Phase 2 will be in a month or so.

Funny thing is the car doesn't look different, it just sounds and behaves like a totally different beast.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Sun Mar 16, 2014 1:02 pm

What does the butt dyno say about the performance?
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:20 am

Have yet to do any hard pulls. Chasing a few boost leaks.
Also the sensor install is on hold as I'm not happy with the PLX sender units. May fall back to Innovate for oil pressure/temp as they are self inclosed units.

Hopefully I will have butt dyno and OBDII data later today to share.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Wed Mar 19, 2014 9:02 am

Making small progress now. Working with the turbo maker and tuner we have started making adjustments to the waste gate and this is allowing for higher boost levels. Interestingly if we don't disconnect the battery for 10mins, the ECU remember's previous high boost levels and won't respect the new waste gate settings.

As of now we've seen a high of 17psi...the JCW should do 21 without issue (I was seeing 22-23 at times with various other hand held tuners). Of course with bigger turbo it's 17psi is flowing the same CFM as the JCW's 21 so power levels are about the same currently.

Having issues with the car wanting to go into limp mode. The working theory is the stock diverter can't keep up with new setup. Luckily I have Alta's mechanical setup and the new GFB DV+ hybrid setup.

Loving the new clutch. It isn't any heavier than the JCW IMHO. Uptake has a learning curve, but with the lightened flywheel shifts no longer loose RPMs.

The LSD is rock solid. You stomp it goes, you turn and stomp, it goes. I may have seen the last of torque steer.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby DSKSMini » Wed Mar 19, 2014 10:40 am

John, Sounds like it's coming together.

Question. In thinking about the air flow, wouldn't 21 psi going into the intake (ie. on the back of the valves) be a little more CFM though the valves vs. 17 psi? Unless you change the size of the valves? (The EE in me thinks the air flow(current in an electrical circuit) should be Preasure(voltage in electrical circuit) divided by restriction (resistance in an electrical circuit). I would think the resistance to flow would be the size of the valve openings). Seems like the bigger turbo would use it's higher CFM to get the intake up to 21psi faster, and be able to hold 21psi at the intake better than a smaller one but not really flow more CFM into the cylinders at a lower pressure.

Edit: OK I think I get the problem. I'm not 100% sure of the piping but if the waste gate was working at the preasure before the flow though the IC and piping to to get to the sensor for the psi at the intake, the restriction of the IC and piping could cause preasure to spike up at the outlet of the new turbo compared to the smaller turbo because it is trying to push all that CFM through that restriction. You might be only seeing 17psi at the intake but at the turbo outlet the preasure could still ramp up quicker and get higher than stock (although I think it would equalize steady state). Is there more than one senser that the ECU can read? It also might be worth looking for a restiction in the piping or IC just to make sure something isn't blocking it.

It's going to be a beast when it is all worked out! Just trying to understand.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby DSKSMini » Wed Mar 19, 2014 11:56 am

OK I couldn't resist googling this a bit.

Do you think it is boost spikes that are causing the EBC to open the waist gate? That guy that said he installed the manual boost control to take out the boost spikes after he did a turbo change might have the answer (I saw that you posted to that thread awhile back). He basically put a manual boost control in parrallel with the EBC path to open the waiste gate anytime there was an overboost at the intake. I assume the manual worked fast enough and at a little lower trigger to keep the EBC happy. Before the change he said he saw 6-7 lbs boost because of overboost spikes. After he had consistent 21 lbs.

Good luck anyway, sounds like you are getting close.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu Mar 20, 2014 8:37 am

Since I've received no response from DynoComp since Tuesday, I took the car to Baron to get the ECU flashed back to stock. Needing to close the waste gate to 95% to build 15psi is BS. On NAM there are 2 other's running the same turbo with no modifications to waste gate. One was stock other had a DNA tune.

Baron said they saw well over 21PSI in their test drive. I've yet to reproduce anything over 17 as we are slowing dialing out a 'lower than expected' boost deviation error from our previous waste gate adjustments. On the drive to work I saw 16.1 psi at 75% load which is about right for stock when it's under 40degs. Once it warms up I'll take it out at lunch and see if I can get a 95%+ load result without a boost deviation error. If I can't get a few days of good results the turbo will be coming off and stock JCW going back on as I need to move on to suspension before the first AutoX event April 5th.

The ECU can take the occasional low or over boost event, it's when it repeatedly is out of the requested boost range that it goes into limp mode. I may pick up a Apexi boost controller if I keep the e45hp just to add some consistency to the boost curves.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Mar 21, 2014 12:52 pm

I think we've got a handle on the turbo with the stock tune now. It's behaving itself even under aggressive and hard driving. Going to run the stock tune for awhile as I finish up doing the new dual oil catch can, NM Engineering intake, and sensor installs. Also have to reinstall my harnesses after the racing seats.

Sounds like my new HVT suspension won't be ready for at least a few more weeks, so the first few events will be done on the PSS10s. Also there is a delay in the new 15" racing wheels so no rush to do the brakes before event 1 and 2.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:15 am

Spent the weekend sick, so the car didn't get much attention. Received my PowerGate tuner from Battle/DNA tuning. They are providing me a stage 3 tune with a custom stage 4 to come later after some dyno time.

Decided not to use the oil plug tap for installing my oil temp sender. Just don't like the idea of it extending down another 1-2". So now I'm searching for someone to weld a bung into my oil pan. Who's got some mad welder skills :mrgreen:

My lithium ion batter should be here this week. So from 36lbs to 10lbs. I went with the product Dave sells at DIY in Olathe. A little more expensive than say Braille's new Li-Ion product, but it has some smart features built in that will make it usable battery all season long that I think justify it's premium.

As the first AutoX event is quickly approaching this weekend is my deadline to install a last few items I have on hand: Wilwood light weight race brakes, Tarret rear sway bar, GP belly pan.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby nine5raptor » Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:59 am

John,

How do you like the BSH engine mount? Is that just the lower mount?

I ordered the NM Eng inserts to try out. I have the BMS clutch stop and I like the throw, but the engagement is still too ambiguous. Hopefully the inserts or something like the BSH mount can improve the feel.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps


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