Project OVRKLL

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Sspreso
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:17 pm

nine5raptor wrote:John,

How do you like the BSH engine mount? Is that just the lower mount?

I ordered the NM Eng inserts to try out. I have the BMS clutch stop and I like the throw, but the engagement is still too ambiguous. Hopefully the inserts or something like the BSH mount can improve the feel.


Frankly the BSH is pretty brutal. If I wasn't taking it to 11 everywhere else, and still daily driving the Mini, I wouldn't be running it. I was disappointed by the NM Eng, kept squishing out. Could be ok on the street. I was very pleased with the Powerflex Black Series insert for a DD compromise.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu Mar 27, 2014 7:11 pm

Spent some more time with the stock tune and several maps (various stage 2 and 3 canned tunes) from other tuners. Regardless of the map it builds boost quickly from 2000rpm up to 4200 and holds a solid 14-16psi(17 once) until I shift gears or hit redline. For comparison the JCW turbo would have been topping out 18-21psi. These are 2nd-5th gear pulls.

So it doesn't seem to be an issue of building boost...but getting the car to continue to build boost at the upper RPM range.

Around town the car feels quicker and willing to go. I was afraid I would loose that with the bigger turbo, but ironically I'm having the opposite issue.

Until I get on the track with race tires or on a dyno is hard to tell if I've gained anything beyond a more efficient turbo.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

DSKSMini

Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby DSKSMini » Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:51 am

Interesting how it isn't building past 16 psi or so.

Here's a plot of the boost and WGDC% from the Stage 1 AP tune - JCW turbo WOT 3rd gear. I expanded and aligned the two axis (boost on the right axis) to get them to overlay. The WGDC is 90% for the start until the boost gets to about 15psi at about 2550 rpm (I cut that part off) then it looks like the EBC tries to control things pretty much to limit overshoot and do a linear climb to reach eventually about 20psi before the turbo starts to fade at 5500 rpm. There seems to be a fair amount of lag between the control input change and the turbo change. Also it seems to be a little quicker to dump boost than build boost. I think that behavior would be expected since the WG is way back at the turbo and boost is probably measured at the IM.

Your setup has to be reacting a lot faster than stock. You have more turbo capacity and a better FMIC and tubing path (the tubing/fmic might let the boost from the IM drop back out the WG faster than stock stuff does also). The EBC is probably just making too much adjustments since your system will react a lot faster. It might be hunting for the right gain to apply to the control loop and expecting a bigger delay in the response to its input changes. Not sure if these canned tunes change the EBC much or just the called for boost level. You might need to put in that boost controller or maybe the tuners can do more to the EBC control loop parameters. What does your chart look like?
Attachments
Boost and WGDC.jpg
Boost and WGDC.jpg (44.26 KiB) Viewed 3158 times

Sspreso
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:06 pm

Nice data dump there! I need to find an OBDII reader that can see WGDC like the AP did. Might have to spend time with the BravTech tool as it seems to dig deeper into the ECU than anything else.

Today we installed the Alta DV and closed the waste gate a bit more and it's now building boost nearly to redline...which means about 18psi now.

So it's better, but still much to log and learn. I'm trying to get it as dialed in on the street as I can with a Stage 3 DNA tune so I can dyno it and be sure of my efforts. With that log and chart DNA will craft a Stage 4 tune.

It's starting to look like the vacuum based waste-gate is the weak link.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Wed Apr 02, 2014 7:54 pm

Well my luck continues. The Lithionics batter wasn't the right size. They forgot to cut it down so it was nearly over 1" too tall. Couldn't even closet the hood!

Good news the gauges and sensors are installed and working so now I can gather data and get the car on the dyno. DNA won't do the Stage 4 tune without a dyno graph and AFR info.

So as of now, I'm seeing 18psi max, but the car feels strong. Can't wait to get some r-comps on it and see what it can do!

Still a lot left to do once the 15" wheels and suspension arrive in late April/May. Except for trying to find a better flowing intake boost tube, I'm done messing with things under the hood. Now just to dial things in.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

nine5raptor
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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby nine5raptor » Thu Apr 03, 2014 9:30 am

John,

I know you mentioned EGTs before. What is it you are looking for as far as numbers go?

I have been running the AP Stage 1 91 Octane and using 93 Octane (with ETOH).

I see timing go up to around 4.5 degrees at the top of the gear and I have seen as high as 19.1 psi. Highest I saw stock was 13.9 psi.

For EGTs, I have seen upper 1500 degrees F (not over 1600 yet). These seem high to me, but I don't have any references. On my talon, I watched EGTs to indirectly monitor knock but not sure if that would apply to this car or not.

Thanks,
Chris
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:47 pm

Cruising around the last few days my EGTs have been 900 at idles up to 1500 under 15psi boost.

Now I counter with what kind of oil temps are typical for a Mini R56? I'm seeing 190-240 range from idle to hard pulls.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby nine5raptor » Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:57 pm

up to 1500? Im getting up to 1560+ under 17-91 psi.

For oil temps, I don't have a way to measure unfortunately. I don't believe I can see that through my OBDII reader or the AP.
2010 MCS CR/W with some custom vinyl, JCW sport suspension (minus FSB), CNT cat back, Add a brake, Alta AP, Devil's Own H2O/Meth Injection, random other little stuff, and some good ol' mud flaps

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Tue Apr 22, 2014 8:32 am

Blowing the dust off the build thread.

After the first autoX I had a PVC/Boost leak that was holding me back to 12psi. Some hose clamps, a BSH boost tap and RVT everything seem good now. Saw 18.2 psi on a highway pull over the weekend. Per Battle/DNA that about what I should expect for the temp Stage 3 tune they have me running. Hope to hit they dyno this week so I can get my Stage 4 tune done.

The 10lbs lithium-ion battery is in and after Thursday's cruise in, the car will go back on the lift to install the light weight racing brake setup from TCE/Wilwood. That should drop the car another 50lbs all together. Will also install the GP belly pan.

My HVT coilovers are taking FOREVER and so are the 15" racing wheels. Being told May-ish for both. Next local autocross is May 4th, then Spring Nationals in Lincoln Memorial weekend. If I get the coilovers installed before May 14th, I'll be doing the HPT event that Wednesday.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:22 am

Who's dyno will you use for the test?
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Tue Apr 22, 2014 11:39 am

MC Racing. Used theirs last fall with the RWM tune. Easy in/out access and it's in ground. I've dyno'd at Modified by Kc and RevLine too. I hear there's a place out in Lee Summit now with a dyno.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Thu May 01, 2014 8:27 am

Well the Dyno run got postponed since my brake install went pear-shaped. Once again the worn part fairy visited me. I was sent Wilwood calipers for a 1" rotor not for the narrower .82" rotor that I had. This led to a huge and offset gap between the front pads. Since the part numbers etched on the calipers were showing the correct part it took 3 days of emails and calls to eventually determine what was wrong. So I should finally have the right calipers by Friday and get everything installed and bedded for Sunday's event.

With the down time I went to install the GP Belly Pan... missing the snap in fasteners that go into the subframe... :roll:

Still no word on when my 15" wheels will be done or when the HVT suspension will be available.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Wed May 21, 2014 7:02 am

Quick update.

HVT suspension should be here next week. So whoever spoke up about wanting the Billstein Coilovers please PM me again.

I have the 275s mounted on short term 15x9s rims as my 15x10s are delayed again. Now saying July. But my wheel studs maybe too short. Need to do some fitment testing before running them.

Did a couple dyno pulls at MC Racing. 225/245 @ 18psi with a mild tune so I didn't loose any power from my tuned to 11 JCW setup. Hopeful that at full boost my goals of 250/270 could be hit. Should have a new Stage 4 tune in several weeks.

Heading up to Lincoln NE this weekend for Spring Nationals. Will be my first time running SMF at a National event.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Wed May 21, 2014 7:30 am

Good luck, John!
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri May 30, 2014 8:58 am

Well Spring Nats were ok. Got washed out first day, dried out for my runs second day. I was within 4 seconds of the national champ so it's a start. Need to go wider, lower, and faster. Did learn that the Coupe is a fat ass. 2600 even with the 120 I've pulled out and 1/2 tank of gas. Craig Wilcox has his 2012 MCS down under 2400.

Just got the Stage 4 tune. Shaking that out and will get on the dyno again in a few weeks.

Picking up a car trailer this weekend. 3+ hours in a heavily prepped car was brutal. May never get all the feeling back in my legs. I'll drive to local events, but the longer trips will be towed. May also make me more likely to do HPDE.

Still need to figure out how to get the 275s to work and install the HVT suspension once it ships next week. Maybe I'll be fully prepped by Nationals in September :lol:
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:40 am

Better late than never... finally got the HVT coilovers installed. The initial spring selection has left me dragging arse...I've maxed out the rear height adjustment and can barely get my 235/40/17s to bolt up. The setup was spec'd for 15" wheels, so will need to make some adjustments there long term so I can keep running my 17s on the street.

Initial impressions are very promising. At the softest settings it rides like the Bilsteins, but is dead flat around corners with the intelligent leveling tech. This should translate into a very predictable cornering monster.

I'll be cleaning up the Bilsteins PSS10s this week and posting them for sale ASAP.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Mon Jul 28, 2014 7:59 am

Well finally all the pieces were in play at Sundays autoX event. I was within .5secs of the big boys, so the car is starting to perform as I'd hoped. Now I just need to dial it in and practice.

My fastest clean run of the day:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-4zM1pE6N0
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:10 pm

Blowing the dust off this topic. Had a poor end of the 2014 autocross season, and put the Mini away frustrated. But over the last month or so I've managed to connect up with a few other Gen 2 Mini guys who are pushing the envelope and I think I've got an avenue to finally get Taz where I'd hoped over a year ago.

Specifically:
-Worked with MarioKart from NAM and now have a viable tune for my hybrid turbo. Only gone on a few shake down runs, but finally seeing 19+psi of boost. He also hooked me up with a set of ARP rod bolts. Given this is a JCW motor it will now be as strong as I can make it without pulling and rebuilding.
-Finally found my unicorn 15x10 6ul wheels to run my 275 racing slicks. Jan from RWM had a brand new set sitting in his shop. Considering they have been out of production for years, this was quite a big deal.
-Another NAM find, was someone in California doing a harness bar for the Coupes. This will finally allow me to meet the HPDE safety rules. I didn't feel comfortable running 100+ with racing seats and OEM belts. I will now be able to run a DOT certified 6 point harness.

I've got a few other "nice to haves" planed, front splitter, turbo blanket, solid rear mounts; but the above addressed my big issues at the end of last year.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:20 pm

Link for the harness bar?

I have a 5 point in a box I've never been able to use......
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:33 pm

Pictures are buried down in the thread for the guy who had the first custom made.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/fo ... ource.html

No "buy now" link. But if you email or call Brad he'll help you out.
http://www.autopowerindustries.com

I paid $185 for it.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Fri Feb 20, 2015 5:37 pm

Yeah, I wasn't thinking, no way any bar like that would work on my Clubby with the third door.

Probably no other way to do it in a Coupe', but I always though they were supposed to be considerably lower in relation to the seat.
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:35 pm

"Horizontal to 20degs" relative to your shoulders is what Scroth recommends as ideal.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:20 am

While chasing down my coolant leak I had to pull the oil cooler plate. I decided to just remove the entire Sneed Speed Oil Cooler for now. I believe this contributed to my early gasket wear as it put upwards pressure on the oil filter housing. Also I don't think the N14/18s need an oil cooler unless you are doing a 24 hour enduro-race in the summer. I think the iron blocked R53s had more issue with cooking their oil than the aluminum R56s. If anything I had issues getting the oil up to temp in a timely manor for events.

I've also recently switched to a Manic Motorsports tune. If you read NAM at all, Manic is the hot tuner right now. I'd have to agree. So far they are the first tuner to get higher PSI out of my hybrid turbo setup. I'm finally seeing 18-20psi.

First AutoX this weekend in Salina.
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Sspreso » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:58 am

Car is running well after 2 events. Installed my lost modification for the season: D1 Spec Throttle http://www.greasysgarage.com/main/2012/ ... i-and-bmw/

Now with the 4 (Stock, 18.5, 21, 23psi) maps and 11 possible throttle adjustment options I can really dial in the power output for the conditions at an event.

I have the pieces to do a few other things, but I've learned my lesson from previous years and will freeze changes to the Mini for the season.

FYI, first local MCC event is April 12th. Come on out to Independence and watch at least 3 of the fastest Mini drivers in the nation (I am not one of those...).
http://www.kcrscca.org/our-racing/solo- ... ur-venues/
-John Herrman
2012 JCW Coupe aka 'Taz'
-If you car doesn't try to kill you, it's under modded.

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Re: Project OVRKLL

Postby Minidave » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:25 am

Smart. Once you have the car sorted out, time to leave it alone and improve the nut behind the wheel! :mrgreen:
Hi! My name's Dave!

"Max" '09 LB/LB Clubman S
"Racing Green" 89 Mini


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