Sputter, sputter, sputter...

[ragtopday Johnna]

My car isn't running quite right, a cold start kind of feeling even when the car has been driven for awhile. It's idling rough on start-up, sputters at an abrupt stop and seems to kind of lag when I pull away from a traffic light. It's just like it isn't getting enough gas, not enough giddy-up. Today driving up a steep hill, I thought I might need to start pedaling.

I'm changing spark plugs and wires (both definitely due for a change) and cleaning the air filter. Anyone got other suggestions what I should check?

I ran the gas down to below 1/4 of a tank so I could put a full tank of winter blend 93 in and that hasn't helped. It feels kind of like it's missing here and there.

[davester]

maybe the fuel pump ---

[ragtopday Johnna]

maybe the fuel pump ---

What's the damage on that job? Like, total Christmas budget kinda damage?

Is there anything I can do to see if that's the issue before taking it in?

[davester]

I would think there is a test to check the pressure. I would call Baron or KC Auto Sport to get a quote. It might be a clogged filter. Look at this post from NAM -- a how to replace the filter.
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/fo ... ement.html

[ragtopday Johnna]

Thanks for the link, Davester. It sounds like that would be a good $50 to spend and the write-up is very clear. I think I know a fella that could to that.

Calling Baron and KC Autosport tomorrow, maybe Autobahn, too. Got a postcard with a discount in the mail from them recently but don't think I kept it.

[davester]

Bare in mind that there are two tanks in the rear of the car. Ask the dealers which side the pump and filter are on -Driver of passenger.

[Minidave]

I agree with the Davester, first thing I'd try is the fuel filter, at 100K and I'll bet it's never been changed.

Did the problem start before you got gas, or right after? With the cold temps we've been having, any water in the fuel could freeze and cause intermittant fuel starvation too; it wouldn't matter if the engine is warmed up if the clog is somewhere to the back....

[ksminiman]

Any word after the plugs were done? I have found through a little research, some boredom + some experimenting that these cars are rather sensitive to plug gap. simply changing the plugs (and making sure they are gapped right) can make a world of difference. I always suggest to gap on the tight side (smaller gap) so that when the plugs wear less power loss will be noticed. I changed the gap on my car and it runs totally different. Some weak places in the ignition system are the plugs themselves and one of the back side ignition wire terminals on the coil. one of these terminals is known for corroding. If all this checks out, check fuel pressure. If fuel pressure is consistent, then likely the pump is fine and as both daves have said, possible filter problem. These cars have a "lifetime" filter which "does not" need to be changed, however, it is a good idea to keep an eye on them. The idea behind the "lifetime" filter is that if the filter should ever need changing the pump goes with it. That is the manufacturer's outlook on it. Just like the transmissions, there is no fixing them. remove and replace. Hope this helps and wasnt just babel

[ragtopday Johnna]

Thanks for the input, fellas.

Minidave--you are right, the fuel filter has never been changed. My last car (which I sold at 281,000) had a habit of ruining fuel filters...it was a constant issue. I've sure enjoyed 5 years free of that problem. Sigh.

I'm waiting on plugs and wires to come via the brown truck. (I'm picky and am sticking with what has always been used in my car AND looks good, so I'll have to wait a couple of days.)

This started before filling up the tank. If anything, it is worse after filling the tank up. I turned around about 2 miles from home tonight and switched cars it was so bad. It's definitely not improving. Thankful for alternate transportation!

[Minidave]

Since it's getting worse, I'm still thinking fuel problem - either the pump itself or the filter - rather than ignition. A new set of plugs and wires at this point can't hurt either tho...

[ksminiman]

Dave- I completely agree with you at this point. If it is getting worse that quickly likely the pump is going out. One thing you can do to determine if the filter is getting clogged by something in the tank is to find a parking lot and weave the car left to right rather violently. If power improves, there is something blocking the filter and the tank will need to be dropped and cleaned (replace the filter wouldnt hurt) If it does not improve, I would be saving up for a pump. If you would like, I am sure I can easily put a pump in your car for you to save some money. I would not be able to get to it till the 20th-22nd or so. If interested, please PM me. I would not charge anything except maybe a good meal The offer is there.

[Minidave]

Took a look on Real OEM and the fuel filter is a separate part, not part of the fuel pump on this car - and about $50. #2 in the 2nd drawing....

The pump itself is mounted in the left tank and is about $300. The filter is in the right tank....

I doubt the tank is contaminated (although it's possible), I'm thinking the pump might be failing.

This is the pump....



and this is the filter assy...



Without taking one apart, I'll bet you can get at these by removing the rear seat bottom and an access cover on each side, you don't have to drop the tank(s).

[Walnuts]

Not to thread jack but my car's been doing something like that as well. Very laggy when I first turn it on. If I let it sit and idle every once and a while it will start going rum rum rum rum rum. Recently I've heard a sound coming from the back passenger side that sounds like a squeaky windshield wiper motor going back and forth. I wonder if we could be having the same issue?

[ragtopday Johnna]

Baron says $660 something to replace the fuel pump, KC Autosport says $550 something. It's interesting how much closer in price these guys are getting, with the dealer sometimes being less. That sure wasn't the case 3 years ago.

Like what Way said on the link Davester shared, Tim at KC Autosport said "Lifetime" on anything MINI might need some attention around 100,000 miles. He suggested changing the fuel filter but questioned the fuel pump. He said if it was the pump, he would expect the check engine light to be on. He thinks a sensor or intake hose could also be possibilities. (I am secretly hoping you guys have correctly diagnosed the problem from my sputter, sputter, sputter description, but only if it's a cheaper repair. )

To add a little excitement to my life, I think I'll try to limp the car across town tomorrow morning in rush hour and see what KC Autosport can find out. While the fuel filter project looks very do-able, finding the time to do it right now seems unlikely. It would be an interesting one to try on someone's car at a garage day!

[davester]

The Blugoose had to have a new fuel pump last summer. Frank said the car would turn over but not start-at all. He had to have it towed to dealer. As luck would have it, Frank had the extended warranty to cover the repair.

[BLUGOOSE]

Yes I did and was I glad I had it. Seems to me that if the fuel pump was bad it would just die and not start.I've had several elec fuel pumps go bad in previous cars and when they went bad the cars were essentially dead. Sounds to me like you might need a filter which to replace will probably cost you several hundred large.-Frank

[Punk_Mini]

At 100k its a pretty good idea to replace those "lifetime parts" fuel pump, fuel filter, and check and clean injectors. If they were lifetime parts they wouldn't have made them removable

[ragtopday Johnna]

I'm headed over to pick up the car, which reportedly had bad spark plugs. (Wouldn't you know the brown guy just dropped my box off with new plugs and wires, still gonna change the wires.)

KCA says I had "oddball" plugs that were not as good as stock MINI plugs. Without looking at the old ones, I am guessing I had NGK or Denso Iridium plugs. Opinions on this?

Apparently my car is running better with new plugs. It threw misfire codes when they plugged it in and it's reportedly better now. I sure hope so and man, do I feel silly driving my car across town for new plugs.

And about that fuel filter, $350ish to change it. Reportedly you have to remove the backseat (hey, who said that? ) to get to it.

Also suggested was changing the fluid in the CVT transmission, $700ish. I was told that it is recommended every 20,000 miles but then came the suggestion that if I haven't done anything to it at this mileage, it might be best to leave it alone since that particular transmission is known to be problematic. The final suggestion was that I spend some time looking around on-line to see what others are doing before making a decision about whether or not to do it. I thought this transmission was sealed?

[davester]

I got nothing--- How long and how many miles were on the plugs??? If you had said Putt, Putt ,Putt I would have guessed what was wrong

[Minidave]

True, Putt, putt, putt would have been a different symptom and would have led me more to ignition too.

But I think I'd be happier about the easy repair than embarrassed about the diagnosis!

Yay for a good running MINI again!

I had heard that the fluid in the CVT's was supposed to be changed every 30K, I think that's what Hagar does and I think he's close to or over 150K on his.....I think on a regular auto with clutch paks I would be leary of changing it too, but this trans is different - I can't think of any reason not to go ahead and change it at this point, but those guys work on the cars all the time so they may know something I don't. You might check with him and see where/when he does his - he's had such good luck so far (touch wood)....

Problematic is kinda an understatement, when they fail they tend to do so catastrophically, and to the tune of about $8-9K!

Oh, and I agree with stock plugs, some folks have had them pop out of the head, and most if not all of the ones I read about had aftermarket plugs in 'em.

[Punk_Mini]

Ignition system is/can be very very sensitive to changes when it comes to wear.

R50- NGK BKR6IEX
R53 w/o pulley NGK BKR6IEX
R53 w/pulley- NGK BKR7IEX

Also check the bottom of your coil pack if its grey or white its either on its way out or its totally shot. If its black then you have a good coil pack.
Here is mine after 90k miles, see the white? That's the indicator for the life of the coil pack. Mine was dead causing misfire on #2 and premature wear on #1 plug grounding strap.

[ragtopday Johnna]

Definitely more sputter than putt. Hoping this did the trick, returning Denso plugs, ordering fuel filter and contacting Hagar about the fluid. To my knowledge, it has never been changed. Supposedly the fluid is $280?

Gonna stop by the dealer to browse while I contemplate these repairs...

[Hagar46]

Johnna, I don't know what to recommend on your CVT. Mine was supposed to have the transmission oil changed every 30k miles and according to the shop manual requires special fluid and an elaborate procedure to make sure it is properly refilled because it is a closed system. As a result, I have had mine done at the proper intervals by the MINI dealer, an expensive proposition. So far so good at 135k miles (including hot laps at Heatland Park, Topeka)! I have noticed that nearing the end of a 30k mile stint, I start getting a delay when engaging the transmission in cold weather. That is usually my signal to change fluid.

[Hagar46]

My NGK Iridium's work fine!

[ragtopday Johnna]

Johnna, I don't know what to recommend on your CVT. Mine was supposed to have the transmission oil changed every 30k miles and according to the shop manual requires special fluid and an elaborate procedure to make sure it is properly refilled because it is a closed system. As a result, I have had mine done at the proper intervals by the MINI dealer, an expensive propostion. So far so good at 135k miles (including hot laps at Heatland Park, Topeka)! I have noticed that nearing the end of a 30k mile stint, I start getting a delay when engaging the transmission in cold weather. That is usually my signal to change fluid.

Thanks for the info. Until the last oil change, I've had all maintenance done at the dealer and went with their recommendations, so hopefully this has been addressed. I'll also look in the manual to see what is suggested and what was marked as done by the dealer. I know the CVT transmission was changed to a different model at some point during production but don't know exactly when that was. Like you, my CVT been tracked (including pushing it to the top end with the top down once; deeply embedded tire particles, dirt and bugs in the upholstery from that afternoon) and I haven't had any problems. I have had the parameters reset twice which helped with the delay issue, so I'm hoping the fluid was addressed at the same time.

What has the price been to have the transmission oil changed?

The "oddball" plugs removed today were NGKs. They are what the last 3 sets of plugs have been and I've never had a problem. They were also half the price that I paid today for stock MINI plugs.