It's here, It's here :) :) :) 2009 JCW

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Big Papi

It's here, It's here :) :) :) 2009 JCW

Post by Big Papi »

Well I was by the dealership today and it was there sitting in all of its brilliant red, the 2009 MINI Cooper - John Cooper Works with 208hp and all the toys :):):):):):):):):):).

the wheel arches are matching red, the interior is all black leather, 6-speed manual transmission, sunroof, blacked-out wheels (dealer optioned).

And it can be yours for the price of approx. $38,500.00


IT LOOKS AWESOME, WOW :!: :!: :!: :!: :!: :twisted:

THAT THING IS A TOTAL SPPEDING TICKET MAGNET - WWWWOOOOOOOWWWWW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by MiniManiac »

I have to side with the folks who balk at the price tag. Give me a break. For another 1K, my MINI will be at or over 200HP and I didn't pay anything close to 38K.
Seth
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Big Papi

Post by Big Papi »

yeah, I meant to drop an icon next to that it is a lot of money.
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Post by MiniManiac »

Big Papi wrote:yeah, I meant to drop an icon next to that it is a lot of money.
Ya, I think it is an awesome car however the price tag is ridiculous.

:saywhat: :bangbang: :doggy: :wtf: :cheers:
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monza

Post by monza »

That price is rediculous. Especially since you can buy an 03 in excellent condition for $15k and drop $5k in it and have an absurdly fast machine :)

Thats all assuming what your after is performance... I guess for some people the exclusivity of the JCW may be the driving factor...
Big Papi

Post by Big Papi »

There can be a lot of reasons. The 07, 08, 09 have a little more leg room with the dash reconfigured and they are 2 inches longer. Some people might want the turbo and not the supercharger (my preference :D ) and some people may just now be finding out about the car. Also, if you look are Consumer Reports it shows that in all of their rating categories that as of 07 MINI has good to high marks across the board. Then there is the individual who has the funds and justs wants one, after all it is basically a BMW now. To me it is all good becasue it puts another great MINI on the road, so I am cool with it. :D
monza

Post by monza »

Big Papi wrote: after all it is basically a BMW now.
im assuming you were referring to the engine...which instead of being a BMW/Chrysler joint venture, is a BMW/Peugeot joint venture. All the same to me...parts sharing is now the norm in the industry. Neither Mk1 or Mk2 have a fully BMW engine, but they have the heart of a BMW 8)
Big Papi

Post by Big Papi »

Yes, I was. This was one of the reasons why I waited so long becasue I am not a chrysler fan at all. I have had a chrysler before and it cost me plenty. I heard a couple of years ago that they were talking about making a trade on the engine at some point and going to the turbo. I did not know who but I was pretty confident that it was not going to be chrysler so I waited for FOREVER :( and finally got my wish.
MiniVespa

Re: It's here, It's here :) :) :) 2009 JCW

Post by MiniVespa »

Big Papi wrote:And it can be yours for the price of approx. $38,500.00
yikes. :shock:
monza

Post by monza »

Big Papi wrote:Yes, I was. This was one of the reasons why I waited so long becasue I am not a chrysler fan at all. I have had a chrysler before and it cost me plenty.
Im not a chrysler fan either, but I did own a 1st Gen neon with the same engine architecture that the Mk1 MINI had. I got 150k trouble free miles from that little car before I sold it...So Im not too shook up about the Tritec in my 03 MCS. I expect a very long life out of it :wink:

Thats not to say I dont like the Prince motor. It is a fine piece of work, and PSA has made leaps and bounds in quality in the last 10 years, so Im sure it is a super durable engine as well...either way, the MINI is all good :lol:

Turbo vs. SC. Personally, after owning cars with both, I have to give my nod to Turbo. The torque curve can be programmed to be super flat!
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Post by kenshin138 »

I love the MINI, don't get me wrong. But you could build a BMW 135i hardtop for that price.

Also, that 38k price tag MINI has (based on the wheel comment) ~$3000 worth of worthless wheels. The 18" black JCW wheels are such a huge ripoff its not funny. Really? Three grand for heavy non-forged wheels and run-flat tires? No thanks. I'll spend my money on a set of BBS/Gram Light/Work/Volk/etc. and actually improve performance. I love the look, but wow. I have seen them for as low as $250/e from some MINI/BWM dealers which isn't TOO bad since you could go with a good set of non-run-flat tires.
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Post by sundance »

The dealer has had both a JCW and a JCW Clubman available for test drives for almost a month now. The JCW Clubman sold pretty quickly and another demo is on its way.

I'm chiming in with my 2 cents on the whole JCW is overpriced debate. Back in late 2003 I used to say the exact same things about the, then brand new, dealer installed JCW kit that ran just shy of $6,000 installed in your existing MCS. For 200 hp I said, at the time, that it was a waste of money. I had a 2003 MCS (still have it) and put my money into an intake, pulley and exhaust and I thought I was so smart to have saved some $4,500 because I had a car every bit as good as a JCW. Fast forward three years to 2006 when I purchased a JCW GP. I ate my words. Granted the GP is a JCW on steroids so to speak but it's pretty much the same kit with a few tweaks. The sheer refined nature of the JCW compared to a DIY series of upgrades isn't even in the same league in my opinion. They're apples and oranges. I'm not the only one who thinks that. Go find many major automotive publications who reviewed a JCW against a highy modified Cooper S and the consensus was that, yes the JCW is a bit pricey but as is true with almost everything in life - you get what you pay for. That being full factory backed warranty, highly engineered performance not to mention the heritage that comes with the name John Cooper Works.

I've had more than 200 miles worth of seat time in the R56 JCW. I've driven it for an extended period on the highway and been on the track with it. You can call me a JCW fan boy, it's been done plenty of times before, but I say the new JCW is worth every penny.

BTW - the car currently on the dealer floor has OZ Ultraleggera black wheels with performance Continental tires not to mention the factory aero kit (Ugh). Those items add to the price because a well equipped JCW with Nav, JCW Suspension and JCW aero kit should only set you back about $36K. It's not hard to put $2K worth of accessories on a MINI as I'm sure many of us have had experience with.

As far as the wheels go, I've got more than $10K worth of various MINI wheels in my garage right now - some MINI and some aftermarket and I have to say I like the way both my MINIs drive with factory wheels better than any aftermarket wheel I've tried. You might say I just haven't tried the right wheel but I say why bother. Once again, I've learned that you get what you pay for. You can save some money and live with options that are perfectly adequate but you can spend the extra and have a package that is freaking phenomenal. :twisted:

These are just my opinions but they are informed opinions after spending time in literally hundreds of MINIs over the past five and a half years. I'm happy if folks disagree with me but all I have to say is that I was once on that side of the fence too. Enlightenment comes with time.
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Post by MiniManiac »

Short reply - I disagree. :)
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Post by sundance »

MiniManiac wrote:Short reply - I disagree. :)
At least you're honest. :D

I know the JCW is not for everyone. MINI will most likely only sell about 400-500 JCWs in a year - maybe more, according to my sources. I won't go so far as to say the JCW brand is "designer" because there's performance to back up the badge. I have no argument that $5K-$6K would make an MCS faster than a JCW but who's gonna know it? :wink:
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Big Papi

Post by Big Papi »

For me I just love the MINI and I think it is great to get another on the road in any form. I love everything about MINI to me it is the perfect combination of performance, comfort and style (duh to me) it is why I bought it instead of a BMW 3 series(like those, love MINI).

BTW...drove a 2008 base model X3 on Friday, that was a great vehicle. I liked it a lot more than my 2005 Explorer.
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Post by kabootist »

As a JCW owner, the smoothness of the JCW compared to the self-installed mods was enough to make me love the JCW, but thats only to an extent, I personally would not spend 38k for a JCW mini...I had my heart set on it but my wallet says differently.
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Post by ragtopday Johnna »

sundance wrote: I won't go so far as to say the JCW brand is "designer" because there's performance to back up the badge.
I'm prepared for a little ribbing on this one, but I definitely pay more for "designer." My shoe/handbag habits have crossed over into the automotive world. I have and will continue to pay more for the JCW parts and pieces on my ride. :D And the bonus is that the JCW goodies work, too. Does that make me a JCW fan girl? :lol:
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Post by kabootist »

I would say yes....and thats from a JCW fanboy... I don't see the designer aspect though, its more about keeping the BMW warranty intact. I think the sidewalk and checkmate packages more as designer, (i didn't specifically want the checkmate package, it fell into my lap, so not saying it like i got designer and you don't) the nicer leather and all the pretty frilly stuff that I would normally associate with designer... I don't buy designer stuff though, Nike and Old navy work just fine for me, I'm too cheap. :D
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Post by MiniManiac »

ragtopday wrote:I'm prepared for a little ribbing on this one, but I definitely pay more for "designer." My shoe/handbag habits have crossed over into the automotive world. I have and will continue to pay more for the JCW parts and pieces on my ride. :D And the bonus is that the JCW goodies work, too. Does that make me a JCW fan girl? :lol:
You? NEVER!!! :)

We all have our opinions, some based on facts and experience and some based on personal preferences (like me :)). I respect them all because that is what makes the MINI/Mini community so much fun. I do think the JCW factory car is awesome and is probably better than a modded car but it is just puts out into a different category with the price. Oh well, I do shop at the Outlet Malls :).
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Post by MiniGeoff »

I'm somewhat on the fence on this one. I have a R53 with the pretty standard load of mods. CAI, 15% pulley, exhaust, plugs, wires, ect. Maybe I'm a bit more modified on the suspension side then average, but nothing crazy.

A couple weeks ago I spent 4 days driving a R56 loaner. It was NOT a JCW, just an S. At the end of my time with it, my service adviser Russ asked me what I thought of the S. I told him I thought it had a LOT more "go" then my r53. He was amazed, and said he figured it would be quite the opposite. Now, it could be that I couldn't hear the exhaust or CAI or supercharger screaming at me, so I couldn't get a feel for the power, or it could be that it's just hella quick.

I think the difference was the "smoothness" that Todd mentioned. I love my MINI, but it's not unlike driving a go cart every day. The R56 drove smooth and easy. If that's the same way the JCW cars feel, but with more "go" then the base model, then I'm sold. Just let me get the $46k the JCW Clubby I build costs and I'm good to go.

Do I have some complaints about the full JCW package that makes me think it's overpriced? Sure. But none of them are in the performance mods. I agree the wheels are overpriced, and with the exception of the black JCWs Todd's got, not nearly as appealing to me. All the carbon fiber is pretty to look at, but certainly isn't worth the insane amount of money they want for it.

There are advantages of not flashing "JCW" and "I'm flashy and fast" everywhere. But then I'm a fan of the sleeper.
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Big Papi

Post by Big Papi »

I have driven an R53 and I own a R56, for me the R56 is much, much smoother especially since I use it as a daily driver. If can get it in JCW with the warranty and the prestige and history of John Cooper Works then for me I am sold at $38,500, however, I would go with different wheels those are not to my taste.

I don't mind paying for something if I believe in it and if I am going to own it for a long time. If I was going to get rid of it in a few years then no its too expensive for me. That allows me at least in my mind to justify the cost.

I would like to test drive that one or a JCW Clubman, unfortunately the Clubman is sold and the JCW is on the showroom floor. Maybe they will swamp it out or get another in soon. :(
monza

Post by monza »

I ride a 30 year old Vespa P200 that rattles and shakes. When compared to a new Vespa GT250, the P200 is very unrefined. Sure the GT250 is super smooth, and a bit faster, but the grumpy P200 puts a much larger smile on my face.

I guess for me, the "smoothness" factor doesnt figure in. Ive never been big on minimizing NVH and focus rather on my driving experience first and foremost. I like lots of feedback from the car whether its in the form of engine vibration, or steering vibrations. These tell me alot about what is going on with the car. Plus for me there is alot of satisfaction in modifying something to perform better than new, and retain reliability and economy...

Nothing wrong with either, it all comes down to what your personal preferences are :wink:
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Post by sundance »

monza wrote:... I like lots of feedback from the car whether its in the form of engine vibration, or steering vibrations. These tell me alot about what is going on with the car. Plus for me there is alot of satisfaction in modifying something to perform better than new, and retain reliability and economy...

Nothing wrong with either, it all comes down to what your personal preferences are :wink:
I agree with this which is why I will be keeping my R53 JCW. It's way more raw than the R56. There's a visceral quality to the R53 that is not present in the R56. I often describe the difference like this - driving the R56 is like playing a video game of driving a MINI. The R53 is the real thing. I'm sure one would get used to the lesser amount of feedback in the R56 but the sheer raw-ness of the R53 is something to behold.

That being said, I'm almost certain that I'll be ordering a new JCW by this time next year. It's that good.
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Post by kenshin138 »

BTW - the car currently on the dealer floor has OZ Ultraleggera black wheels with performance Continental tires
I retract my statement then, these are good wheels. Again, not super-light forged, but these are some of the best cast wheels you can buy and aren't stupid expensive. Good call on whoever ordered them for it.

Also, IMHO the JCW "kit" is not overpriced at all for what you get, namely the warranty. The r56 kit is a LOT less than the r5x kit which is nice as well.

I also like the JCW aero kit for the r56 so depending on how much they are asking for it think it can be worth it.

Again, I would not pay 38k for a MINI (maybe a GP back in the day) when something like a 135i is in the same range. However, for 29-32 I think the JCW is a good purchase.
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Post by rascalpants »

For $38K i can get an 2006 or 2007 M3... not sure i would spend that much on a mini that doesnt have a ton more horses under the hood.

well unless it had butterfly doors :D :D :D

http://www.piloracing.com/prodimages/50020007.jpg


just my 3 cents


rp
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